Place order before payment redirect/popup

[rued]

Hi,

One ongoing issue with external payment options is failing callbacks and customers not returning, so the payments are placed, but there never will be any order for it in Zen Cart. Happens also with PayPal and other "official" payment options for Zen Cart.

I have noticed that some other shopping cart systems place the order first, and then redirects to payment. Then if payment is OK the order is marked as paid, and if payment fails the order is marked as cancelled or remains pending (those handlings are options in the payment module).

My preferred handling of orders and external payments would be like this:

• Customer walks through cart and click 'Confirm order' (or better, when it external handling 'Confirm and Pay')
• Order is placed (stored in DB as pending)
• Customer is redirected to payment before checkout confirmation page is displayed
• The customers pay for the order
• The customer is redirected back to checkout confirmation page
• Orderstatus is updated with info about transaction, and if desired - marked as paid.

Optional/Nice to have feature:
Now if a payment fails, the customer should be returned to the placed order, with info about it being cancelled. Or better, it's pending and displays a button for "Pay now" / "Select other payment option" or similar.

In this way store owners would be saved for some grey hair, trying to figure out of a payment without order (if order info isn't stored at payment provider), and/or the hassle to get it recovered in cart for proper accounting.


Is there any way to place the order before redirect to payment today?
If not, could this be moved to feature whislist and considered for later releases, or for extending the possibilities if it's partly possible today?

[stevesh]

May we assume you're using Paypal Standard (IPN) ? If so, switching to Paypal Express should fix the missing order problem you describe.

[rued]

No, you shouldn't assume it as this is about all payment systems working the same way.
PayPal isn't an option for many at all. But thanks for your input.

[gilby]

No, you shouldn't assume it as this is about all payment systems working the same way.
PayPal isn't an option for many at all. But thanks for your input.

So..... Then..... What payment options are causing these problems for you?
as it might be easier to "fix the problem" rather than to bandage the symptons.

I ask because the situation you describe appears to be "unusual" (except for paypal standard)

[rued]

Please folks, PayPal is not the only payment option in the world. Stop focusing on it.

This applies to all payment options working similar to PayPal Standard, and it's not unusual - it happens quite often. It's data sent over internet, errors do surely occurs. Most of, if not all, payment modules is built somewhat in same way as PayPal Standard.

Anyhow, none of you seems to have bothered to read what I'm actually is asking for or pointing out. If you can't reply to that, don't bother replying with questions not related or of any use for anybody. Not to be harsh, but please ...

[stevesh]

So sorry for trying to help. Best of luck with your store.

[gilby]

This applies to all payment options working similar to PayPal Standard, and it's not unusual - it happens quite often. It's data sent over internet, errors do surely occurs. Most of, if not all, payment modules is built somewhat in same way as PayPal Standard.

What I and stevesh are trying to point out is that MOST modern payment modules DON'T work the same as the old PayPal Standard.
That is the whole point, other payment modules work much better and don't cause problems.

The method you are proposing can still cause issues if they don't come back and confirm it, as well as cluttering up your database with thousands of partially completed and/or unconfirmed/cancelled orders. Not to mention the extra program logic and store owner time to try and keep track of it all.

I will crawl back into my box now and hibernate.

[rued]

What I and stevesh are trying to point out is that MOST modern payment modules DON'T work the same as the old PayPal Standard.
That is the whole point, other payment modules work much better and don't cause problems.

Sorry, but I did not see that you did. Surely you edited your posting and added a extra line after I started writing my reply, but still I don't see you both are doing what you claim in your original one-liner replies. Sorry!

But please feel free to point me to some modules and payment systems that do work great, with no risk for orders not being placed in Zen Cart, I really do like to take a look at their coding and function.

After testing PayPal Express it seems like the risk is the same there, no order is being placed before you leave the cart, so if callback/return fails you will still miss an order in Zen Cart.

As I see it most payment modules do a redirect after the customer confirms the order in store, then the payment it placed, and the customer returns to store at the same time as the order is being placed / stored in DB. If the return or background callback fails there never will be any order in Zen Cart. Isn't it so ...?!

The method you are proposing can still cause issues if they don't come back and confirm it, as well as cluttering up your database with thousands of partially completed and/or unconfirmed/cancelled orders. Not to mention the extra program logic and store owner time to try and keep track of it all.

Indeed, but what is worst. Having some unpaid orders you can cancel with a click, or having a payment without an order ...
From what I have seen the problem is much smaller when using carts with this functionality, so I think you have fixed your opinion on something not fully being a definitive to every need.

I will crawl back into my box now and hibernate.

I wrote a longer post explaining things as I see them, I then expected more of the replies - and I expect adults to be able to handle critic also without starting to post such comments and taking the tread further of track. I think my post and questions was pretty clear, but it was sadly ignored and replied to with what still seems to be of topic one-liners witch doesn't give anything (I can't read your minds, sorry).

[yesaul]

Hello Rued,

Did you find any solution for the described problem ?

(I clearly understand the problem, I agree with the solution ways you offer, but the question is how to fix it)


BR, AR

[rued]

No, I haven't looked into the coding matters of it as I rather investigate alternatives at the moment (both for cart and payment). From the replies, or lack of replies, it seems like this is of no interest for the Zen Cart developers, community and users.

Also one of the largest payment providers in Scandinavia was tipped about this tread, but I guess they don't want to admit their shortcomings, and stays away from any discussions regarding it. They always blame the other parties for errors. Sad thing is they don't care to use their expertise to help improve the other parties, to fit better with their system. But then again, it might be a prof of they being wrong then... ;)