Template Monster: Public Service Announcement

fellis:

concerning "fluid designs" - we have a category on templatemonster.com - we named it "stretched". We know how to code this sites.

But i must say that not all our customers (less then 10%) prefer streched sites. Thats why we optimize all our design to 800x600 and going to provide 1024x800 category as Tmonster mentioned.

So I think even if admin area alows to set up site width we shouldn't create all designs as fluid, because it's more difficult job for a designer.

Yes, it is more difficult, but you can bet that our users will try to make a fluid design using a fixed width template and visa versa. Because Zen Cart is so flexible they expect the templates to be flexible also.

"replace these ugly default products pictures?"

I think this would be a good thing to do. Many of the existing demo category/product images are dated or unprofessional in appearance. That said, the products they are tied to represent important teaching tools. Those should not be changed in most cases, and the dev team should not have to spend time working on this issue.

If a set of images were created to give a modern commercial "feel" to the page display, while using the same filenames as the current set of images, they could be slipped in to replace the old images without fuss or bother. That would be a good service to the community.

I would suggest not changing the demo SQL to change products at this time. There are plans in the works to make changes in that area.

Yes, that was my suggestion, to not change anything except the appearance of the demo image files, so no SQL work would need to be done.

If you are planning on redoing the demo products relatively soon, any outside work on images is probably moot, though.

:D exactly

As I promised we created a new zencart theme. We paid attention to all
your remarks and wishes. This theme was codded in a way without spacers and we reduced <div> quantity to min. Also it is based on override system you advised and has right file structure.
After theme installation it’s recommended to setup ZENCART_SHORT.SQL to configure the theme like it is on demo.

http://osc.template-help.com/new_zen_test - theme demo
http://osc.template-help.com/zen_new.zip - link to the theme

Hope you would like it.

fellis:

This theme was codded in a way without spacers and we reduced <div> quantity to min. Also it is based on override system you advised and has right file structure.Credit for some steps in the right direction, but let me encapsulate all my doubts into a single, simple question ... Between the tagline and the EZ-Pages header you have three nested DIVs (none of which have any associated CSS) that contain just a 1px X 1px spacer.gif and an invalid line break tag. Why?

thank you, kuroi we removed those spacers.

ARGH!!!! Y'all are STILL not getting it! You have hardcoded navigation in the footer instead of using the EZ Pages menu builder, the same in the header, added an if around the category tabs that doen't need to be there they can be turned off in the Admin.

As Kuroi already mentioned there are nested divs with spacers inside. What the heck are these? <div class="separate column"> </div> Doesn't anyone know how to use margins and padding?

And in the tpl_login there are these? </div><div style="width:10px;"></div><div class="dc" style="width:60%; "> :shocking:

Kim goes running off into the woods screaming

KIM
1 Do you mean that we should take off graphic buttons from top menu? It will ruin the design.

2 Concerning Home | Log In | Shopping Cart | Checkout links in header - you use alike links in default theme.

3 We removed Home | Specials | New products | All products | Reviews | Contact us | FAQ in footer because we have EZ pages links Home :: :: My Account :: Site Map :: Privacy Notice :: Shared :: Action DVDs there

4 As you know we are trying to create cross browser and cross platform theme. Some older versions of not popular (but used by internet surfers ) browsers do not display styles “margin and padding” in a proper way. We received many complains from our customers, before we started to use empty <div> with height css property to solve this problem. We don’t want to start working again with this problem. So please let us to use empty <div> in html code. I don’t think it’s a big problem to discuss.

5. As for login page we notices that if in admin area Configuration  layout settings  Use split-login page = true, the output of default theme (zencart/index.php?main_page=login) gives wrong layout. You can see it in details at http://osc.template-help.com/new_zen_test/bug2.jpg
   That’s why we created our login page and implemented it.

6. The same problem is on default page when we tried to turn on all widebanners - the layout was broken. http://osc.template-help.com/new_zen_test/bug1.jpg
   We don’t know if this layout troubles are bugs, so we just want to ask you about solutions.

you can see NEW corrected theme at
http://osc.template-help.com/new_zen_test - theme demo
http://osc.template-help.com/zen_new.zip - link to the theme

For the most part I haven't got a clue about the technicalities that are being discussed here but I have been quietly smiling to myself as this thread has developed.

I can see that TM and fellis are trying but old habits are hard to break:smile:

What about doing things another way? I know the competition idea was mooted but wasn't really going to go anywhere but what if the boffins of this thread collaborated on this latest template to showed TM how it should be done?

TM could then donate the finished product which could go in the downloads section so the community gained but TM would end up with a template which was 100% ZC compatible and could then be used as a starting point for their other stuff.

I took a brief look at the newly posted template and files. Quick look shows improvement. I'll try to install later and provide additional comments.

fellis:

5. As for login page we notices that if in admin area Configuration  layout settings  Use split-login page = true, the output of default theme (zencart/index.php?main_page=login) gives wrong layout. You can see it in details at http://osc.template-help.com/new_zen_test/bug2.jpg
   That’s why we created our login page and implemented it.

I don't see the same behavior on a ZC v1.3.7 clean install. However, it does illustrate a comment previously made. Without knowing the specific ZC version around which a TM template was created, it's hard to know what features should work or not.

In this case, ZC v1.3.7 added split login option, but it doesn't work with TM's currently available ZC 1.3 templates....at least one of them that I have. The easiest way to handle problems like this is to state for each template what specific ZC version it's compatible with. The problem with that is that your customers are not necessarily savvy to what version references really indicate. Are the library of TM templates ever updated to fit with current ZC version releases? If so, are the updates communicated or made available to your end users?

fellis:

1 Do you mean that we should take off graphic buttons from top menu? It will ruin the design.

No, I am saying there are better, more flexible ways to do things with the Zen Cart system. You can use the EZ Pages Menu builder to put the links over the background and use a graphic for the divider instead of hardcoded links. The end user can then change the links from the Admin.

fellis:

2 Concerning Home | Log In | Shopping Cart | Checkout links in header - you use alike links in default theme.

The point I am trying to make is that you have repeated some things over and over and that is not necessary.

fellis:

3 We removed Home | Specials | New products | All products | Reviews | Contact us | FAQ in footer because we have EZ pages links Home :: :: My Account :: Site Map :: Privacy Notice :: Shared :: Action DVDs there

Okay

fellis:

4 As you know we are trying to create cross browser and cross platform theme. Some older versions of not popular (but used by internet surfers ) browsers do not display styles “margin and padding” in a proper way. We received many complains from our customers, before we started to use empty <div> with height css property to solve this problem. We don’t want to start working again with this problem. So please let us to use empty <div> in html code. I don’t think it’s a big problem to discuss.

If the padding.margins is such an issue use a conditional stylesheet for those non-compliant browsers like you have added for IE. (which BTW can be done another way too)

fellis:

5. As for login page we notices that if in admin area Configuration  layout settings  Use split-login page = true, the output of default theme (zencart/index.php?main_page=login) gives wrong layout. You can see it in details at http://osc.template-help.com/new_zen_test/bug2.jpg
   That’s why we created our login page and implemented it.

Easy fix in the stylesheet to change the width of the floating boxes without having to touch the code.

fellis:

6. The same problem is on default page when we tried to turn on all widebanners - the layout was broken. http://osc.template-help.com/new_zen_test/bug1.jpg
   We don’t know if this layout troubles are bugs, so we just want to ask you about solutions.

Obviously, if you use both sidebars and increase their width the would not be room for a banner that is 468 pixels wide ... banners can be changed to fit.

Now lets talk about the Main header graphical area - you have a background with another image over it. That is fine but you have the words New Arrivals that logically should be a link. Why not make that the tagline area or use one of the banner positions to put HTML over the background?

As I have said for a very long time, Zen Cart is different. You have to think outside the box. You can be as creative as you want if you just learn the system.

Hello all!
Thank you for your great comments.

To Brent
I can’t donate a theme from templatemonster.com to zencart community, but if Tmonster agree we will sure donate it when it will be finished.

To lib99
We use zen-cart-v1.3.7-full-fileset-12302006.

To Kim
Great wishes to you, and big big big thank you for your posts. We found them very useful and we will try to follow the instructions you gave to us.

We will provide corrected results ASAP.

There is only one thing I want to discuss - 4. You asked us to create separate style sheets for problematic browsers. But again I ask you to permit us to use empty <div> with height. We worked for about 2 years to create coding standards for TM that suits both our developers and customers. Those divs will not ruin theme logic, they will not do any harm to SEO and I don’t see any problems in using them at theme.

Please, Kim, tell me what do you think about this.

fellis:

There is only one thing I want to discuss - 4. You asked us to create separate style sheets for problematic browsers. But again I ask you to permit us to use empty <div> with height. We worked for about 2 years to create coding standards for TM that suits both our developers and customers. Those divs will not ruin theme logic, they will not do any harm to SEO and I don’t see any problems in using them at theme.

Please, Kim, tell me what do you think about this.Kim will be getting some well-deserved shut eye, so let me jump in.

A big part of the problems that you have had, and are doing an increasingly good job of addressing, is that your coding standards were designed for a time when layout tables were the norm and CSS wasn't well-supported by browsers. Those days are gone, and they're not coming back.

I note that you say you spent 2 years developing these coding standards and presumably have been using them for a while since, so it seems that it's probably time to move them on. The historical problem to which you refer, and the IE5 box model bug in particular are really things of the past. The lastest W3 browser statistics show IE5 usage down to 1.5%, half what it was in January and well below the 10% threshold that led you to decide earlier not to produce fluid layout designs.

The empty DIV approach isn't without problems. In some situations they can be rendered as pure whitespace, i.e. without allowing background colors or images through. It seems that some browsers recognise that empty Divs are not correct and don't pay them as much attention as they should. Margins and padding however, are correctly supported by all current browsers and are definitely the way forward, so this is really a test case as to whether you are ready to come fully up-to-date.

2 kuroi

several years of developing does not mean that we are using the same css structure all the time. We’re watching w3c specification and testing our sites in different browsers (IE 6.0+, IE 7.0 Mozilla, Firefox, Safari, etc ), different platforms (windows, free BSD, mac OS, Linux) and we start to use a new solution after it was tested in all browsers. I can provide a check list if you need.
However we will remove _blank divs from this theme. Now, I’m trusting you, we’re talking about test zencart theme, but not about production on TM using this coding standarts.
It will take some time no test this theme in all browsers. If the layout will be fine, we will use this coding principles on our template. I will post the results of testing when finished.

We tried to use your methods of coding. You can look the results at http://osc.template-help.com/new_zen_test/
However this structure is looking ok only in IE in mozilla and firefox is has some layouts problems. If you have any solutions we will very appreciate your help.

I sent hours looking up html coding forums but a solution with empty divs (clear:both) is still recommended.

2 kim:

we created top nav menu as EZ pages and made "new arrivals" in header as a banner.

Is there anything else to correct but html coding? Or is logic structure of template ok?

Thank you!

2Brent

I think it is good idea to donate this theme to the community when its approved and finished. Let's plan have a plan on that.

Why did you remove the 3 column table from the tpl_main_page ? That is what holds everything together.

CRAP!!!!! :censored: I wish I would have seen this post before I dropped $390 dollars on TWO ZenCart 'Template Monster' templates.

The first template was for v 1.2.7, which the 'template-help' people told me that it was my fault for not reading the specs... I guess they are right.

I talked online with a "William" at TM and he informed me of my first mistake. I asked him about a different template and he said that it would work with the current 1.3.7 ZC version. BOY...was he wrong.

I informed TM 9 days ago and they tell me that "they are still working on a fix". I have purchased 7 templates from TM over the last 7 months. All the other templates were flash templates. I have asked them about every other day if they have a fix and they tell me that they are working on it. On time "William" disconnected me from the online chat.

Just want to post this to inform others NOT TO BUY FROM Template Monster. At least not the ZenCart template. IT DOESN"T WORK AND THEY WILL NOT HELP YOU GET IT FIXED!!!

Please save your money.

Scott

PS...My site is https://www.tru-fab.biz